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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » OFF TOPIC » GETTING CLOSER TO NO 12-13 NHL SEASON! W...
Subject: RE: Getting closer to no 12-13 NHL season! Woot!
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Comfortably Numb Dec 22, 2012 07:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I'm no fan of the man either, he has all the grace of an ambulance chaser but he was hired by the owners and answers to them, period. If they don't like his tactics, he's gone. Fact is, the NHL is a business and he's good for business. Annual league revenues have increased by 8 or 9 times in the twenty years he's been commissioner.

Hockey fans are a pretty loyal bunch, once this dispute is finally settled they'll be back because there's a lot more than just the players and owners that depend on it, like the local sports report which is a lame duck without the NHL at this time of year.

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Cannon Fodder Dec 22, 2012 09:16 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Sure, he answers to them, but my point was that he's highly unlikely in that position just to do their bidding and take the flack, i.e. he was most likely hired because he had ideas on how to increase league revenues that the owners liked, and I expect he's a major part of any brainstorming they do, as opposed to simply a "hired gun" the owners are sending out to take out the opposition.

Quote: (Comfortably Numb @ Dec 22 2012, 07:27 PM)

If they don't like his tactics, he's gone.


Although I'm sure it could go either way, as I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was gone in the semi-near future, i.e. I think there's probably several owners that are as pissed with the situation as the players & the fans are.

Quote: (Comfortably Numb @ Dec 22 2012, 07:27 PM)

Fact is, the NHL is a business and he's good for business. Annual league revenues have increased by 8 or 9 times in the twenty years he's been commissioner.


Admittedly, I haven't paid close enough attention to the whole thing, because this happening for a 3rd time in recent years is complete BS as far as I'm concerned, and I have heard that league revenues are up, but was that a typo, i.e. did you mean revenues have gone up 8 or 9 times in 20 yrs., or did you mean they've "increased by 8 or 9 times? If the latter, have you got a link to some info, because that number seems hard to believe?

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grumpy1 Dec 23, 2012 01:00 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Seems like your one of the sheep the players are counting on believing there bs.
League revenue and profits are two different things. By all accounts the league as a whole made less than $300 million in profits. And 3 teams made up over half of that.

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Choub890 Dec 23, 2012 06:49 AM Reply | Bookmark
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That doesn't mean that the owners should get more money though. Have you ever thought that it was abnormal for ~10 teams to be always in deficit year after year after year? To me, that points to another problem than the greed of the players to get more money.

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grumpy1 Dec 23, 2012 08:12 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Hockey is a gate driven sport. Some teams can charge lots but most cant. A $54 million dollar cap floor is why there are so many teams losing money. The poor teams cant afford to spend that much.

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Analbumcover Dec 23, 2012 09:09 AM Reply | Bookmark
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You're a stupid f'ing moron talking out of his*****
Of course, it based on revenue on profit. It's not up to the players how the league spends their money. If they want to blow all their money trying to establish teams in desert, the players have no say in that.
Are you going to tie your wage to your employer's profits, you dumb ignorant idiot? I can guarantee that the next day your employer will declare  zero profits because of all of the "business" related expenses that somehow mysteriously wound up in his home.

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grumpy1 Dec 23, 2012 09:25 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Name another business where employees get 57% of an employers revenue.

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Analbumcover Dec 23, 2012 09:43 AM Reply | Bookmark
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You're a special kind of stupid aren't you?
What does that have to do with anything? So someone else has to have done it first before the NHL can? They couldn't have negotiated that on their own? And yes, other pro sports did have it above 50-50 in favour of the players before the owners busted them down.

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grumpy1 Dec 23, 2012 09:58 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Take it easy tough guy.

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Analbumcover Dec 23, 2012 10:46 AM Reply | Bookmark
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You guys are reading the situation completely wrong.
It's the owners that are being controlled by a small clique supportive of Bettman. The league is pulling in record revenue so most teams are doing quite well. It's a small greedy capitalist group surrounding Bettman that want to get even more money. The owners played their hand because their proposal was not even 50-50 split which is the case in most NA pro sports. The owners want the players' share below 50 in the mid 40's. So everyone knows who's greedy and unreasonable.
The players are supportive of their stance. No breaks in rank. Very recently the players voted overwhelming (something like 97%) to dissolve the union. Dissolve the union does that mean the players think the union is doing a bad job? No. Dissolving the union means players can individually sue the NHL/owners. They don't have to bargain through the NHLPA. Lots of players intend to because of the slash in their salary.
Owners are screwed and they are bleeding money. They know just as well as everyone else that sports entertainment and entertainment in general is global. Every day more people become die hard of other venues like MMA, European football, racing, MLS, etc. No shortage of entertainment. It just takes time to build the fan base.

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Lariat06 Dec 23, 2012 11:28 AM Reply | Bookmark
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While this might not go with the argument, but most teams in the NHL are NOT doing quite well.
17 Teams in the league only break even or lose money ( 9 of them losing money )

If the NHL wants to do better, they need to fold some of these crappy teams and weed out the bum players from the talent pool. ( or at least move a couple teams to some profitable/interested areas )

There's no reason why a handful of very well off teams ( due to fan support ) should pay the way for a bunch of southern American teams that can't pay people to watch games.

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Analbumcover Dec 23, 2012 12:13 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Some sports writers are saying the real problem that while the NHL as a whole is making good money, it's like you said the top profitable teams not wanting to share the money with the poorer teams. That is a problem entirely on the owners/NHL part with nothing to do with the players. The players have no say in who gets to have a franchise, which cities are profitable, or whether it's a good idea to have a hockey team in the desert.
The owners can either remove or raise the cap that the richer teams have to share or get rid of the poorer teams. Instead, they got together like a gang and figured they could collectively slash the players' salaries to make up for their shortcomings and failings as businessmen.
And you know what? A lot of these sports franchises are subsidized by the local municipality which is obviously unfair to the taxpayer that can't even afford to watch the games. So if these owners can't make it even with subsidies they can go to hell. Local municipalities also provide the subsidies on the basis that hockey is actually being played so if the municipalities had some balls they would sue the owners for the lockout or at least try to recoup some of those subsidies.

This message was modified by the poster at 12 23, 2012 12:22 PM

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grumpy1 Dec 23, 2012 12:29 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Maybe you should call up Bettman and wow him with all your awesome business ideas.

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Aix Dec 23, 2012 04:34 PM Reply | Bookmark
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It's like you think you're a mob boss running the show...except you're a couch potato going off on a computer store's forum over a collective bargaining process you aren't involved in. Hilarious agro!

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Comfortably Numb Dec 23, 2012 08:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I meant what I said, revenues have increased by 8 or 9 times from $400 Million when Bettman was hired in 1993 to $3.3 Billion last year. References:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/cba/who/bettman_gary.html
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/05/30/grange_bettman_large_revenues_nhl/

Quote: (Cannon Fodder @ Dec 22 2012, 09:16 PM)

Sure, he answers to them, but my point was that he's highly unlikely in that position just to do their bidding and take the flack, i.e. he was most likely hired because he had ideas on how to increase league revenues that the owners liked, and I expect he's a major part of any brainstorming they do, as opposed to simply a "hired gun" the owners are sending out to take out the opposition.


Agreed, we're kinda' arguing different shades of grey here. I think Bettman is more of a lightning rod due to the public image that media reporting has created. He certainly shares the blame for the situation the NHL finds itself in, but ultimate responsibility rests with the majority of owners that discreetly and privately keep him in place. If the owners persist with their position to the point of forcing the players to disolve the NHLPA and lose the battle in litigation, following the same pattern as the NBA and NFL, Bettman is likely to be sacrificed; albeit with a juicy severance package.

Quote: (Cannon Fodder @ Dec 22 2012, 09:16 PM)

Admittedly, I haven't paid close enough attention to the whole thing, because this happening for a 3rd time in recent years is complete BS as far as I'm concerned


I'm not the fan I once was for exactly that reason. It really dirties the whole notion of competitive sports, even at the professional level, when money is the defining factor. :(

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Cannon Fodder Dec 24, 2012 10:16 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Just came across an article on the Montreal Gazette web site, and since a portion of it is about the topic of this thread, here's a little copy & paste, for those that are interested:
===================================================

"Happy 100th Day! Monday marks the 100th day of Gary Bettman’s Unnecessary Lockout. Are we having fun yet, kiddies?

At this point, we’re hoping for a shutdown. Blow it up and start over, without a half-dozen dead-weight teams and the man Larry Brooks calls the Canceler-in-Chief, because if Bettman announces the cancellation of a second full season, he should announce his own resignation at the same time.

If the deal you killed a season to get was so bad that you had to kill another entire season to get a different deal, then I’m sorry, but you’re an idiot. If the owners have a shred of intestinal fortitude, they’ll tell Bettman not to let the door hit him on the way out.

Because Gary Bettman has done the impossible: He’s made it look like the NHL would have been better off with Gil Stein."

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Analbumcover Dec 24, 2012 10:33 AM Reply | Bookmark
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