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Topic URL: http://forums.ncix.com/forums/topic.php?id=2578724
Don't care anymore about hockey.
season is already mothballed as nhl is taking it to court. they are looking into disbanding union as it currently stands. hope they win.This message was modified by the poster at 12 20, 2012 03:18 PM
I"ve watched one round of playoff hockey only since the last strike. Won't even watch that much moving forward. Couldn't care less if they ever come back.
don't care about "professional sports"
i'm watching iron chef
Get it over with, should have cancelled in September
I hope the NHL fails completely.
Stupid CBC and TSN kept holding out from buying KHL games. TSN bought a few but nothing in large numbers. Instead they showed reruns of games. Jeez. Lame.
KHL is a better game than the NHL. Hopefully, broadcasters get enough sense to buy the KHL Playoff games which are coming up.
meh, AHL is better as all of my favorite nhl team are on one AHL team right now. like an extended preseason.
**** the rich owners, **** the rich players, **** the union and **** the entire season. They won't see me crying any tears over the fact that they can't come to terms on how they will carve up all our money. They are all over-paid and it sucks that the prices of tickets have been driven up so high an average family can hardly afford to go see a game. **** them all because they have turned our sacred sport into a ****ing joke.
On a side note, I swear I almost barf every time I have to watch Bettman talk. That parkinson-like headbob and the way he talks are too much...I mean, if he talked to me in person I would be forced to hit him.
Quote: (Analbumcover @ Dec 21 2012, 10:33 AM)KHL forever.
Stupid CBC and TSN kept holding out from buying KHL games. TSN bought a few but nothing in large numbers.
Probably because they realized that folks over here tuning in to watch the KHL would be doing so just out of curiosity, and once the novelty wore off(probably by the 2nd period), people would be changing channels in droves. Other than a few folks(apparently including you), the KHL likely holds little interest for most fans over here.
Quote: (justmoe1 @ Dec 21 2012, 12:26 PM)meh, AHL is better as all of my favorite nhl team are on one AHL team right now.
Quote: (danielson99 @ Dec 21 2012, 03:40 PM)On a side note, I swear I almost barf every time I have to watch Bettman talk. That parkinson-like headbob and the way he talks are too much...I mean, if he talked to me in person I would be forced to hit him.
I hear ya! Although the guy is certainly eloquent enough, his mannerisms are a bit hard to take. I thought the guy was a weasel from day 1, and orchestrating 3 lockouts in the time he's been around has proven my theory. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone in the semi-near future.
tsn should be showing more AHL games other then those of cdn teams. most of the nhl teams in canada use american ahl teams. for whatever reason most of the ahl games in the states suck for quality except when they play in canada and tsn picks it up. all OKC games should be broadcast along with Abbotsford and other cdn teams and us teams with cdn nhl players.
although now most of the AHL players of interest are leaving for Junior Worlds.
Quote: (justmoe1 e Dec 21 2012, 04:09 PM)
tsn should be showing more AHL games other then those of cdn teams. most of the nhl teams in canada use american ahl teams.
Are you sure???
NHL Team.............AHL farm team
Montreal.............HamiltonThis message was modified by the poster at 12 21, 2012 04:45 PM
Just Say No to NHL Hockey.
It's time for fans to strike back. Show the greedy owners and spoiled players that you, the fans, should not be taken for granted. Support amateur hockey, support the AHL, KHL, whatever. But don't support the NHL if or when they do play again.
Quote: (Cannon Fodder @ Dec 21 2012, 04:37 PM)Are you sure???
my bad your right....but you only made my point more valid.
Quote: (.,. @ Dec 21 2012, 08:19 PM)spoiled players
How are they spoiled? What if I told you id be cutting 25% of your paycheck, and if you complained id call you spoiled?
Quote: (Hotshot @ Dec 22 2012, 10:22 AM)How are they spoiled? What if I told you id be cutting 25% of your paycheck, and if you complained id call you spoiled?
What gets me is when people say the greedy owners and greedy players are fighting over money. BIG SURPRISE GUYS! Betcha didn't know this but the NHL is a business. What's the relationship you have with your employer? Are you bum buddies? Do you work based on favours, kisses, and high fives? Betcha most people work for money.
Then there's the oh the NHL and players don't care about hockey. Can you think of any other business where that makes any sense to say? Oh, the computer parts manufacturers and retailers can agree on price. They should work together for the love of computers. WTF? Both parties are interested in profits. Nothing personal but it really has nothing to do with happiness of computer nerds.
LOL... we're not talking about $40,000 - $50,000 a year of a normal persons wages... %25 loss could loose their home... the salary of almost anyone playing sports (especialy Hockey) are being paid a **** load more then they should be and a %25 loss in salary is still a damn good life in terms of money. I lived in a bsmt suite under Scott Hannan and his friends Chris Mundel (bucket), and Big Bob... they where incredible people and great to have a party with. but had no respect for money. I was eating freakin apples from an orchard making minimum wage trying to servive until i could finish school when they would have cupboards filled with any type of alcohol and other things i am not going to mention on the form on a daily basis.
dont get me wrong i am not putting blame on all sports players. some very well may respect what money is and how it effects everyone world wide. Scott and Chris they where extremly genorus people at times as well when they left, they gave my room mate and myself all the furnature from the home.
Back to the point of this... to call an average person spoiled after garnishing %25 of their wages CANNOT be compaired to a hockey players wage and have them lose 25%.
Quote: (Hotshot @ Dec 22 2012, 10:22 AM)How are they spoiled? What if I told you id be cutting 25% of your paycheck, and if you complained id call you spoiled?
So what's your answer to the bargaining? Status qou? Keep it the same and in a few years a bunch of teams go under and a few hundred players lose jobs.
Quote: (grumpy1 @ Dec 22 2012, 10:53 AM)So what's your answer to the bargaining? Status qou? Keep it the same and in a few years a bunch of teams go under and a few hundred players lose jobs.
You are so uninformed and it's people like you Bettman is counting on.
There was a new CBA after the last lockout and the owners got whatever they wanted.
Now the owners are back again asking for more concessions all the while the NHL is pulling in record revenues. The players know the owners are just going to keep pushing if they keep giving in.
I have to agree with Analbumcover on this one. The NHL is a business guys.
The players are the best in the world, and the best gets paid accordingly. What amount they get paid also depends on what others are ready to pay them (i.e if one owner is ready to pay 2 million to have that player on his team, then the other owners usually don't have a choice to offer him AT LEAST the same amount, unless the player wants to play at a specific place).
The owners, on the other hand, take huge risks with their money by buying an NHL team and investing in it. They never know if the team will finish in the bottom 5 place each year and the attendance will start to lower = deficit for them at some point. This usually won't happen in places like Toronto, Vancouver (which is usually in the top 10 anyway) and Montreal because we are die hard fans of our teams, but that's only 3 teams / 30 which is not representative. So it is only normal that they want to minimize that risk by making sure they have a bit more money in their pocket.
Now, while the question of which one should get more money is open for debate, there is no question when i say that the NHL is a multi billion dollar revenue BUSINESS, and that that money will be distributed the way they decide to, like any other business. Could the NHL allocate more money to the fans by lowering the price of tickets? Yes. Could the company for which YOU work for raise your salary more than they are already doing? Yes. But they don't in both cases. The only difference is the scale of the money involved.
wtf people watch american hockey?
you are in North America I assume.
the only guilty party is the union. not the players, not the owners, and for once not bettman. the last 2 nhl proposals were far more then the players have ever received in the last decade. the owners who ok'd the proposals were taking a loss. and the union walked out on both. now the nhl has no choice but to report the union as it has been operating against the players and is making unbusiness like decisions for the players.
none of this is unusual when arbitration fails and the union fails to change its own proposal during the process. it is like bartering with a customer who will not budge on a ridiculous price. having dealt with many unions in the past no talks succeed unless both parties come closer with proposals that make both parties happy. the nhl have changed theirs several times the union has submitted almost the exact same one each time.
Quote: (justmoe1 @ Dec 22 2012, 01:40 PM)the only guilty party is the union. not the players, not the owners, and for once not bettman
The union is the players, just like any other union which goes about their business democratically for the benefit of a majority of those players. The owners, on the other hand, are strictly in it for themselves and will only agree to a deal if it's in their own best interest individually. Bettman does what a consensus of the owners tells him to, more or less, and part of his job is to take the flack for them. Why people blame him personally for the failure of contract negociations makes no sense.
Quote: (Comfortably Numb @ Dec 22 2012, 02:01 PM)The owners, on the other hand, are strictly in it for themselves and will only agree to a deal if it's in their own best interest individually. Bettman does what a consensus of the owners tells him to, more or less, and part of his job is to take the flack for them. Why people blame him personally for the failure of contract negociations makes no sense.
Well, although the media can, and has, put out plenty of BS stories over the years, on all topics, I get the sense that the media that covers this topic(TSN, Sportsnet, etc.) is fairly well informed, and the consensus seems to be that Bettman, and a select few owners are doing the vast bulk of the yapping/negotiations, supposedly on behalf of the entire league. As you said, the owners are most likely in it for their own individual interests, yet the thing that seems contradictory, is that at least two(Philly & Boston) of those select few owners have franchises that, by all accounts, are doing just fine, which tends to point to nothing more than greed.
As for blaming Bettman personally, I think it's rather naive to think that he's there for nothing more than to do the owners' bidding and "taking the flack"...... although none of us has enough info to go on, I expect he's a very large reason why things are where they are.... for a 3rd time during his tenure.
Quote: (Comfortably Numb @ Dec 22 2012, 02:01 PM)The union is the players
union represents players. it is managed by only a select number of players and lawyers. democratic yes...to a point. if you watched any sports news you would know that many of the players especially the many lesser paid players have no interest in this debacle. you would also know that the union employs questionable tactics in controlling those same players.
also most unionized employees have no knowledge of what is taking place and vote whatever their representative tells them to.
Quote: (Cannon Fodder @ Dec 22 2012, 04:42 PM)I expect he's a very large reason why things are where they are
everybody despises the guy and he is a weasel and has made some monumental mistakes in his career. this is not one of them. this time he is the only one bringing anything to the table. the players have only brought one proposal and have walked on every DIFFERENT proposal the league has presented. the league has every right to report the union for questionable practices.
Quote: (justmoe1 @ Dec 22 2012, 05:50 PM)union represents players. it is managed by only a select number of players and lawyers. democratic yes...to a point. if you watched any sports news you would know that many of the players especially the many lesser paid players have no interest in this debacle. you would also know that the union employs questionable tactics in controlling those same players.
It's democratic period. Every union, and every democracy for that matter, has a minority of members that don't agree with everything that happens when it comes to representing their interests. They have the right to vote otherwise but there is no perfect system that makes everybody happy all the time. Contrast that with private enterprise and the corporation which is subject to the whims of a single CEO and the board of directors who are usually in his or her back pocket. Shareholders have a very limited ability to effect decisions except in the rare instance where they control upwards of 20% of the company.
The NHLPA is not much different than any other union, they elect an executive and a bargaining committee and then direct them to bargain a contract with the owners. They have to operate in a very public environment due to the nature of the business and can afford better legal resources, but that's their right. Suggesting that the union is somehow controlling some of its members to their detriment is disingenuous when their business is conducted by secret ballot.
Quote: (justmoe1 @ Dec 22 2012, 05:50 PM)also most unionized employees have no knowledge of what is taking place and vote whatever their representative tells them to.
That's quaint, and you know this how? I've been a union member for all of my working life; never had a problem with understanding labour relations issues and vote my conscience regardless of the executive line. Unions tend to be very transparent, but they're only as effective as their membership is willing to participate. Everyone is free to voice their opinion but the majority rules.