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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » OFF TOPIC » 22 KIDS STABBED IN CHINA...
Subject: RE: 22 kids stabbed in China
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DJZ Dec 16, 2012 12:11 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Right but then it's all about what you think about the tradeoff. The accidents most likely outnumber the number of tragedies and deaths that are prevented by citizen with guns. Because frankly there are very, very few deaths in those shootings statistically, whereas heart disease and car accidents take a lot more folks. So why be scared about shootings when you should be scared about cars. I drive because I'm not scared about a statistically relevant chance that I could die at any moment, why would I wear a gun because of a statistically irrelevant chance that I could die in a shooting?

This message was modified by the poster at 12 16, 2012 01:58 PM

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Amokläufer Dec 16, 2012 12:34 PM Reply | Bookmark
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why is it ok for the liberals to ban guns but not ok to ban abortion?

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 01:10 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Dynamite doesn't kill people. People kill people.
Mustard gas doesn't kill people. People kill people.
Tanks don't kill people. People kill people.
Bombers don't kill people. People kill people.
Missiles don't kill people. People kill people.
Nukes don't kill people. People kill people.

God damn Obama, big government, socialists, Communists, Marxists, freedom haters, and America haters won't let me own any of those things.

Nothing in this world actually kills people. Nothing should be illegal.

My sincere hope is that the USA is plagued by mass shootings and I don't have to put any effort into that. The gun lovers lose a loved one in the shooting. Adam Lanza's mother was a "gun nut" and that where he got his weapons. If it were up to me, I would pay to have mass proliferation of guns especially for poor, urban youths.

This message was modified by the poster at 12 16, 2012 01:22 PM

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Alter3d Reality Dec 16, 2012 01:42 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I know you're trying to be sarcastic because you're probably the most left-wing person on these forums, but you're absolutely right.

Here's a fun experiment. Take a stick of dynamite. Put it on your kitchen table. Now don't touch it for a few days. Let me know how many people die. Was it zero? I bet it was zero.

Now, take a handgun. Load it with ammo. Repeat the experiment. Did the handgun move itself across your house, jump up into your bed and kill you in your sleep? No? Gee, I wonder why that is...

If I were to take a car and purposely run down a bunch of pedestrians, is it the car's fault? What if I cut a bunch of people with a knife? Is the knife evil? What about the evil rocks that people have been beating each other with for tens of thousands of years?

Your argument only makes sense if you use circular logic and/or hypocrisy and/or ignore empirical evidence.

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DJZ Dec 16, 2012 01:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Well that's just precious. You can replace the word and this constitutes an argument. Because firearms and abortions have exactly the same stakes. Why do I bother arguing with supergeniuses, I can never win.

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 01:46 PM Reply | Bookmark
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So is everyone going to sign my petition so I can have a nuke or what?

EQUAL NUKE RIGHTS FOR EVERYONE! Why does big government think that I can't have a nuke?

This message was modified by the poster at 12 16, 2012 01:47 PM

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Sir Nerdalot Dec 16, 2012 03:25 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I assume by the opening post that this is a sarcastic mocking of how guns are registered but knives are not and that they are somehow comparable.

OK... Q-Ball.

You are using a scenario where Rambo is running around killing people with a knife. So you are immediately assuming a super knife warrior is going to be the assailant which is already an extreme.

If we suppose Rambo was running around stabbing people in a mall then yes some people would die. Would 20 of them stand around waiting to be stabbed? Could they not just run away or lock themselves behind a door or call for help or spray them with mace or man up and 2 or 3 guys tackle him down?

Altered Reality.. do you honestly think that strangers in a mall are going to stand around when they see a man stabbing someone? I don't care how good hearted they are they'll run for their lives.
You are also assuming that he has a knife and you have a gun isn't really in context. If it was then we would assume he had a gun as well and then this would all be moot.

Comparing "deaths" to "killings" such as car accidents vs shootings is ridiculous. Besides you can own as many man killing cars as you like go crazy!

Gun on the table hypothetical.. You say to not touch it, well off course nothing would happen if it was never touched... why would you own it if you can never touch it?? Now assume it could be touched. Say you have children in the house or visitors or you yourself are of questionable mental well being.

From the National Crime Prevention Council:
"The news stories are frightening: a child accidentally shoots a sibling while handling a gun; a child brings a gun to school to settle an argument with a peer; a young person is shot by a stray bullet while playing outside her home.

Incidents like these happen every day in the United States. On an average day in 2002, eight young people were killed by a gun – that’s one every three hours"

There are reasons why people have to lock up their guns.

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Logain23 Dec 16, 2012 04:06 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Here is a fun scenario.

You are in a theatre everyone has a gun.

Everyone but one guy is a "good" guy. The one "bad" guy stands up and starts shooting (call him person A). A good guy stands up and shoots him (this is person B). Another good guy (person C) didn't react in time to see that person A stood up first to start shooting people but he did see person B shoot person A. So he shoots person B, he thinks this is the bad guy.

Now all hell really breaks out as people start shooting each other.

The problem is that bad guys don't seem to want to wear the black hats they have been assigned so sometimes it's really hard to be able to tell them apart from the good guys who for some reason arn't wearing their white hats either.

Also unless you are a martial arts expert with years and years of training I will guarantee you are going to get cut a few times trying to take a knife from a determined person. If the person actually knows how to use a knife you are likely going to be cut VERY badly.

There is a reason police are trained to shoot you if you attack with a knife.

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TKSS Dec 16, 2012 04:19 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Then you secure your weapons properly as anyone who's taken a firearms safety course can attest to. If a weapon is properly secured in a gun safe, or even out of sight with a trigger lock or barrel lock, the only thing it can be used for is a bludgeoning weapon. Yet any gun control regulation, or safety precaution, doesn't take into consideration the ability to purchase a weapon illegally. If someone of questionable morals, or mental stability, really wants to get their hands on a gun, they can and will. Prohibition has never been effective in curbing what was intended to exert control over. Doesn't work for drugs, didn't work for booze and doesn't work for guns.

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DJZ Dec 16, 2012 04:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Meanwhile in the reality of how people actually behave...

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Sir Nerdalot Dec 16, 2012 04:31 PM Reply | Bookmark
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xLogain - Or the Empire States building scenario where highly trained police officers accidentally shot 9 civilians trying to stop the shooter. Imagine civilians who want "to be able to save as many people as possible by pulling out their handgun and dropping the f***er where he stands."

xTKSS
See this is how you guys jump around confusing the subject. He made a hypothetical about how a gun can't kill anyone on its own if nobody ever touched it and you turned it into an argument over whether prohibition was successful.

Am I wrong about this thread being a comparison of knives to guns??

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Logain23 Dec 16, 2012 04:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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IMO without knowing more than what the media has reported.

Both of these situations would have been better handled by having a more effective method of dealing with those that are mentally unstable.

There is a good article on the huffington post about how poorly mental illness is dealt with.

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Amokläufer Dec 16, 2012 04:55 PM Reply | Bookmark
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MSNBC
>"We have to take a look at people without the facebook and those who don't hang out with friends who stay inside all day and play video games"

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DJZ Dec 16, 2012 05:12 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Antisocial people are murderers and we should infringe on their personal lives. Check. Oh MSNBC, you so cute.

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 06:06 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Asians still did it better. Seung-Hui Cho from Virginia Tech killed 32 and injured 23. Adam Lanza only killed 28. That's cause Lanza the weiner wasted his ammo and time shooting the victims needlessly multiple times especially children. Come on, 3 at the most. You have to be a pretty bad shot.

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DJZ Dec 16, 2012 06:26 PM Reply | Bookmark
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That's so many kinds of politically incorrect :O

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Sir Nerdalot Dec 16, 2012 06:28 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Praising the efficiency of mass murderers is acceptable practice in these forums?

The fact you find making these types of off hand statements acceptable or even humorous makes me question your mental well being. I would certainly not want someone as uncompassionate and desensitized as yourself to own firearms.

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 06:32 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Are you trying to infringe on my God given 2nd Amendment rights? For the sake of argument, let's pretend that God/Jesus knew about guns and wanted Americans to have them. Since they are God given rights, they are universal so it doesn't matter which country.

HA! Suddenly, I'm the crazy one because I don't clutch a gun like a security blanket just waiting for the day that I can be a hero and use it. You here some of the gun lovers talk and they are just waiting for the day to act out this wet dream/fantasy of theirs. The other fantasy is that the government comes for their guns and surprise they take out their guns and go on a shootout with law enforcement. Yeah I'm the crazy one.

This message was modified by the poster at 12 16, 2012 06:36 PM

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Cheakamus Dec 16, 2012 08:18 PM Reply | Bookmark
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they can already make guns with biometrics, eliminating the possibility of your relatives or criminals getting hold of your guns but the NRA and consevatives are against that, which doesn't make sense to me.

I believe when the majority of Americans are non-white, only then will gun-control becomes reality, politically speaking. By then they will have millions more guns and the logistic of removing those weapons is a total nightmare for any president because youre bound to have pockets of resistance. It's gonna be like Civil War II.

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 08:29 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Glad you brought this up. The resistance to gun control is actually economics. Guns/war is for the purposes of protecting and acquiring property. The gun lovers say guns puts people on equal footing. OK, then let's give everyone in the USA a gun (equal arms in fact no one has a more destructive weapon than the other person). Now since the majority of them are poor guess what? They are going to want "their share"/economic equality.

Yes, let's put the 1% on equal footing with the 99%.

1% with guns vs. the 99% with guns. Mmmm..... that's good economic justice.

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TKSS Dec 16, 2012 09:28 PM Reply | Bookmark
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And you know how many gun owners? I'll take a wild guess and say none. Every gun owner that I know has their weapon(s) secured as described earlier.

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TKSS Dec 16, 2012 09:53 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Oh...I see... I guess you're allowed to muddy the discussion with simile, but if anyone wants to discuss something that actually is within the scope of an issue we're jumping around and confusing the subject.

I stand corrected.

I do have a question for all the people screaming bloody murder over lax gun control laws (for a country they don't even reside in). What exactly have you done about it other than post your concerns on a message board for an electronics retailer? Contacted your MLA/MP, Councilman/woman voicing your concerns on the evils of American gun control? Joined any gun control groups? Donating to any of those groups? Volunteered your time to any of those groups? Or are you just talking/typing to hear/see your own voice/words and show the small demographic that frequents this message board how morally superior you perceive yourselves to be?

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Somebody69 Dec 16, 2012 09:59 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Can you retrofit guns with biometrics? no. Again, 300 million guns in the US. Control is POINTLESS at this point. You will see zero decrease in shootings. Shooting people is actually illegal, and it still happens. Guns are something that should absolutely not be in the hands of private citizens for any reason imo, EVEN sport (hunting is not a sport, nor is it "necessary" for survival). However, you can't take every single gun away, nor can you prevent murderous psychopaths from committing mass murder through gun control.

That non-white majority is coming very soon (think it's 66% of Americans are non-Hispanic white, and that is falling), and I don't see how that has any impact on gun control (probably the opposite; darkies be dangerous, yo). But you are absolutely right, it is impossible to remove guns. That is something I rarely see discussed...it's not a matter of NRA vs liberals, but reality vs insanity (aka politics:P).



Quote: (Cheakamus @ Dec 16 2012, 08:18 PM)

Analbumcover said:
Glad you brought this up. The resistance to gun control is actually economics. Guns/war is for the purposes of protecting and acquiring property.



It is indeed economic, but instead the reason we can't have gun control is that it is ridiculously expensive to find every gun in the US and remove it. Because honestly, that is the only way gun control can work. It can't ever be implemented successfully mid-game. Do you have any ideas how to achieve 99.9% (or so) compliance with a gun control (ban) law? You have seen the NRA whackos...they literally would choose guns over their family. This isn't a rhetorical question, either.

To me, more restrictive gun controls (or a ban, which would be ideal IF it could work) are simply symbolic, and do nothing to prevent these sorts of crimes. It would stop petty criminals, but they'll just get a knife or something else. I don't think there would be a sufficient reduction in crime to warrant any further form of gun control. Crime comes from a) some people are garbage, and b) poverty. I'm talking bottom 1% poverty, not "the 99% are poor" crap. You'd do more to reduce crime by spending money on birth control, abortion, education, work creation, and welfare than you would by spending another dime on taking "guns off the street." And no, this particular incident probably would not be affected by any of that, since apparently this guy was rich and very intelligent, but this incident also didn't start the gun control debate.

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Cheakamus Dec 16, 2012 10:34 PM Reply | Bookmark
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It will at least prevent the little kids accidentally shooting themselves while playing with their daddy's guns or using their dad's guns to commit a massacre at their school. I think some people will voluntarily participate in a gun exchange of some sort. It doesn't take away their constitution rights but even this minor restriction is opposed by the gun lobby which is insane. They are afraid it will be the beginning of the gradual repeal of their rights to bear arms.

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Analbumcover Dec 16, 2012 10:51 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Americans, in general, are sick, sick people. We all know how notorious evangelicals are. They take one line out of the Bible literally or sometimes twist it then they become fanatics and their whole church focuses solely around that one issue.
This relates to the gun issue because you have people in the USA that are twisting and interpreting the Constitution in completely bizarre ways.
Quote: (Cheakamus @ Dec 16 2012, 10:34 PM)


The 2nd Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


It's even written in the Constitution the motivation for the antiquated 2nd Amendment. For the purposes of a militia. Nowhere does it say it was for personal protection of person or property. The USA was never meant to have standing armies but a citizens militia summoned when needed in times of conflict by the President and Congress.

This is backed up by Art 1 Sec 8:

Quote: (Cheakamus @ Dec 16 2012, 10:34 PM)

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;


And the 2nd Amendment places no limits on arms because since the militia is the primary fighting force of the USA it needs military grade weapons. In other words, nukes are legal and can be owned by the citizenry.

"Shall not be infringed" means no infringement as it says. No regulations. No background checks. No limits on quantity nor qualitative properties. No discrimination based on age, gender, mental conditions, profession, etc.

Ah whatever. Gun nuts going to do what gun nuts going to do.

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XtremeDay Dec 16, 2012 11:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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population control? 22 is like a needle in a haystack

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DJZ Dec 17, 2012 09:45 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Shut up TKSS. I don't even mean to be rude but literally, think before you start typing ridiculous garbage. Knowing gun owners doesn't change anything - so your entire point is laughable.

I don't need to know gun owners to look at gun-related accidents and deaths to have a reasonably clear picture of the situation. What you're doing is the equivalent of saying "you've never been raped and you haven't raped anybody so you can't talk about it in any way".

Have some rigor in your thought patterns sire.

Quote: (TKSS)

I do have a question for all the people screaming bloody murder over lax gun control laws (for a country they don't even reside in). What exactly have you done about it other than post your concerns on a message board for an electronics retailer? Contacted your MLA/MP, Councilman/woman voicing your concerns on the evils of American gun control? Joined any gun control groups? Donating to any of those groups? Volunteered your time to any of those groups? Or are you just talking/typing to hear/see your own voice/words and show the small demographic that frequents this message board how morally superior you perceive yourselves to be?

Activism doesn't count unless it's through one of the few TKSS-approved ways.
High school level illogical arguments all over again.

This message was modified by the poster at 12 17, 2012 09:47 AM

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STINGAHHHH Dec 17, 2012 09:57 AM Reply | Bookmark
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i'm surprised they aren't voting on a '' let's give a gun to every student '' law.


Granted , even if they have law against guns , there will always be a f'ed up person to go arround it and do their massacre. Though , the US are setting themselves up for those kind of event to happen.

Poor kids/parents

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STINGAHHHH Dec 17, 2012 10:00 AM Reply | Bookmark
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i'm surprised they aren't voting on a '' let's give a gun to every student '' law.


Granted , even if they have law against guns , there will always be a f'ed up person to go arround it and do their massacre. Though , the US are setting themselves up for those kind of event to happen.

Poor kids/parents

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Analbumcover Dec 17, 2012 10:01 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Texas announced they are arming their teachers. Now if you follow the logic than more guns make you safer, wouldn't it make more sense to arm the students?

And talk about giving a teacher even more control over your child. Put a teacher in a position of authority and then give them a gun? Jeez, talk about a pedo's utopia.

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