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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » GENERAL DISCUSSIONS » BELL IMPOSES NEW LIMITS ON TEKSAVVY INTE...
Subject: Bell Imposes New Limits On Teksavvy Internet
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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 06:34 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Delete Image. Please use this feature thoughtfully.  Report this image 

With the new limits
What are your thoughts?

Personally, I don't want the internet at all anymore.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 06:43 AM

Topic URL: http://forums.ncix.com/forums/topic.php?id=1977550

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Commander Waffles Mar 19, 2009 06:45 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Well, I hope the Canadian government steps in and slaps them around, but it will never happen

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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 06:46 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Actually this is the governments doing,
After the CRTC passed the new regulations to give us higher speeds and reasonable caps.
Bell went to the gov and got this part passed instead and no higher speeds.
Under the threat of bell never upgrading the network ever again.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 06:47 AM

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Frustian Mar 19, 2009 06:47 AM Reply | Bookmark
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2/20/60GB caps? What bull. The thing is they can do it with impunity because very other Canadian ISP is doing the same thing, so what are you going to do? Not use the internet?

tbh this should be illegal for telecoms to do this, but as always they will get away with it since nobody in the fed wants to do anything, even the organizations put in place to stop things like this.


$1.25/GB overage fees? It will probably be cheaper to get a T1 line than to pay the overage fees outlined there. And $2.50/GB for Bell service, no way I would ever consider that.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 06:48 AM

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patpond Mar 19, 2009 06:49 AM Reply | Bookmark
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w0w, so much for that 'Unlimited' account

that's a little excessive...

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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 06:49 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Frustian @ Mar 19 2009, 06:47 AM)

Not use the internet?


Not entirely, I'll use the internet from the library.
I am never gonna buy internet again though for one
And I will never buy tv service, cause all this is partly their fault.
I will give up the radio too, cause its partly musicians fault too.
And I'll never buy music or movies again, cause its mainly the RIAA and MPAA's faults.

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Alter3d Reality Mar 19, 2009 06:56 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Frustian @ Mar 19 2009, 06:47 AM)

It will probably be cheaper to get a T1 line than to pay the overage fees outlined there.

Unfortunately, even with a T1 you're still dumping money in Bell's pocket (local loop fee).

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ftp1020 Mar 19, 2009 07:12 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (AskGreg™ k Mar 19 2009, 06:46 AM)

Bell went to the gov and got this part passed instead and no higher speeds.

It's not passed yet; this is Bell's proposed tariff changes. A similar situation existed in Australia, but the independent ISPs there actually spent some money and built their own separate infrastructure rather than rely fully (as Teksavvy does) on incumbent telco infrastructure.

Edit: the problem in Canada isn't that Bell (et al) owning the last mile of copper, but what happens after aggregation at the Central Office. In Australia, the independents co-locate at the CO level, whereas here in Canada they rely on Bell (et al) to do the backhaul from Central Office to their nearest point-of-presence (in eastern Canada, 151 Front St in Toronto).

That really is the only way to get out from under the incestuous relationship the CRTC has with the cable and telco monopolies.


This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 07:16 AM

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 07:16 AM

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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 07:18 AM Reply | Bookmark
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You can't beat the banker at monopoly and thats the issue here.
Bell is making their own services less attractive and hurting themselves making people switch to cable.

They are not doing whats in their own best interests.
They are all working under the demands of the distribution companies who want to turn the internet into a pay per site service.
Where only their site , that sponsors the isp, gets unlimited.
And you get $3 per GB for non sponsored sites.

TV/Games/Movies/Music are all to blame, for our internet issues and I'll give them all up, forever now.
I own enough dvd's, enough blu rays, enough games, enough music to last me to the day I die.

And if I want new stuff or internet access, I can always goto the library

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 07:20 AM

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Michael_G Mar 19, 2009 07:33 AM Reply | Bookmark
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They have only filed a application to change the GAS. (which TS use's to get internet to you)

There is a multipage hate bell disaster theard about this on dslreports in the teksavvy area.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22084387-Bell-files-a-half-assed-tarrif

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 07:33 AM

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Philippe_L Mar 19, 2009 07:46 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Well ... I am not very surprised. Bell had these rates for over a year now in my area. I don't remember the cost/GB over the limit though. 60GB for the 5mbps line was there last year when I asked about it.

The worst thing is that cable isnt any better in term of rates and fees but at least I have had better customer service.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 07:46 AM

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Keywork Mar 19, 2009 08:09 AM Reply | Bookmark
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That bill/tariff is absolute Horse s**t. I switched over to teksavvy a few months back and I did that solely on the aspects which this "bill" is set on degrading. If that 8$ increase or so goes through on the 5Mb connection, as well as the new caps, i would certainly consider switching back to cable......but we'll see. I really hope this doesn't go throughI just want my Teksavvy :(

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nakano2k1 Mar 19, 2009 09:32 AM Reply | Bookmark
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I don't know about other cable providers in the rest of the country but Rogers Cable Internet has the exact same cap. 60gb a month for their express service and throttling during peak hours I believe.

You can, however, get the "Extreme" service where you get an additional 2ogb a month (whoopie...) but you have to buy the modem and pay extra every month...

There really isn't a winning solution for consumers right now...

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Alter3d Reality Mar 19, 2009 09:51 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (nakano2k1 @ Mar 19 2009, 09:32 AM)

You can, however, get the "Extreme" service where you get an additional 2ogb a month (whoopie...) but you have to buy the modem and pay extra every month...

I'm on Extreme and I rent the modem. You also get 35GB extra, not 20GB (still crap though).

And Rogers caps the over-use fee at $25. I've done >1TB in a month before and only got charged the extra $25.

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Lucineri Mar 19, 2009 09:53 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Over limit fees don't sound so bad with rogers then, given that cap on the fees...

I do hope though that the government steps in before it's absolutely too late though, as these measures are only going to hurt people

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Alter3d Reality Mar 19, 2009 09:58 AM Reply | Bookmark
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I should try to find my bill where I did something like 1.3TB. My bill says something like $1800, then a $1700 'credit' (to bring it down to the $25 cap), and there's this box that says "Congratulations! You saved $1700 this month on your Rogers services!".

Once my fileserver is up and running (ugh, dumb thing) I'm gonna try to break 3TB in a month just for the hell of it.

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Greg_K Mar 19, 2009 10:34 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Alter3d Reality @ Mar 19 2009, 09:58 AM)

Once my fileserver is up and running (ugh, dumb thing) I'm gonna try to break 3TB in a month just for the hell of it.


Nice.

I honestly wish, the CTRC and the rest of the government would realize that fair use and competition are necessary to prevent giant corporations from doing things like this. Further why did the Canadian government give Bell a monopoly over the currently installed copper and expect them not to screw the competition?

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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 10:39 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Not to mention, rogers can kick you off for running publicly accessible servers. Since its against their TOS

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James_8970 Mar 19, 2009 10:47 AM Reply | Bookmark
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We all need to realize that part of the issue is that with HD, bandwidth is increasing dramaticallly in recent years and will continue to do so for the forseable future. My ISP is starting to map out laying down fiber to ever house in the city, something that every ISP will begin thinking about. The costs associated with fiber are significant. Also, my understanding is that bell does a lot of it's service via satellites. I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't think those satellites are going to be able to withstand the demands of HD content as demand increases, which means there will be a lot of trenching if they want to continue to offer their services. At this point in time, EVERY company is looking at doing major upgrades to their network and we are going to start paying out the rear for it whatever which way we want to look at it.
With that in mind, 2GB caps are still obserd. I think everyone should be entitied to 100GB then pay for overages, with a limited amount. And once you reach x amount of GBs, you're internet ought to be cut till the following month. I know many of you won't agree with me, but to think otherwise is unrealistic. We, the power users place the greatest load on the network, thus we should pay the greatest fee for said service.
James

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 10:47 AM

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 11:11 AM

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AskGreg™ Mar 19, 2009 10:49 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Right now, our ISP's profit greatly from content that is not theirs.

They wanna talk about protecting copyright holders.
What about those who they profit from , they are the biggest breachers of copyright, by profiting from content that is not theirs.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2009 10:51 AM

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Barber Mar 19, 2009 10:55 AM Reply | Bookmark
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I just pay 20$ extra per month since every single month, me and my two roommates go over 95GB combined. We have rogers and I wish they just had a plan that costs 20$ extra and had unlimited. Plus for the three of us that only works out to like 7 dollars extra, not a big deal considering we don't pay for cable, we stream everything.

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Greg_K Mar 19, 2009 10:58 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (James_8970 @ Mar 19 2009, 10:47 AM)

We all need to realize that part of the issue is that with HD, bandwidth is increasing dramaticallly in recent years and will continue to do so for the forseable future. My ISP is starting to map out laying down fiber to ever house in the city, something that every ISP will begin thinking about. The costs associated with fiber are significant.


Its true that laying fiber is expensive, however in the majority of the cases, new infrastructure is paid for by the tax payer (or even the consumer - in some cases, the last mile cost can be placed upon the consumer). The issue I have, is when tax payer funded infrastructure is used to gouge the consumer (a 2GB cap IMHO is designed to create  overage fees - and thus gouge the customer).

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James_8970 Mar 19, 2009 10:59 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (AskGreg™ @ Mar 19 2009, 10:49 AM)

Right now, our ISP's profit greatly from content that is not theirs.

While true, they don't have control over what people do with their services. Like any other company, they want to make a profit. I said it once and I'll say it again, each and every one of these companies are going to have to take a HUGE undertaking in the next couple of years to upgrade their infrastructure. They have to issue caps in order to make their infrastucture last. Does it need an upgrade? God yes, but like I have said, that's a huge undertaking and will require a significant amount of money.

Quote: (AskGreg™ @ Mar 19 2009, 10:49 AM)

What about those who they profit from , they are the biggest breachers of copyright, by profiting from content that is not theirs.

Yeah and the same extends to blank media and just about every other distribution.

James

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SKYMTL Mar 19, 2009 11:00 AM Reply | Bookmark
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What we need is a pay per useage system for residentail customers in addition to a basic access fee. Much like we pay for electricity.

Say a $10 access fee in addition to a $0.35 / GB charge.

That would work out to $45 for 100GB and so on.

I think that is more than fair since people will begin paying for exactly how much they use.

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James_8970 Mar 19, 2009 11:02 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Greg_K @ Mar 19 2009, 10:58 AM)

Its true that laying fiber is expensive, however in the majority of the cases, new infrastructure is paid for by the tax payer (or even the consumer - in some cases, the last mile cost can be placed upon the consumer). The issue I have, is when tax payer funded infrastructure is used to gouge the consumer (a 2GB cap IMHO is designed to create  overage fees - and thus gouge the customer).

If our taxes pay for this, I'll be pissed. That being said, there are more costs associated with infrastructure costs then just trenching, though the majority of the costs do lay with laying the fiber down in the ground. ALso, yeah, the 2GB cap is stupidly low, which is why I said it's obserd. I don't think any ISP should be able to implement a restriction that low.
James

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Alter3d Reality Mar 19, 2009 11:09 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (SKYMTL @ Mar 19 2009, 11:00 AM)

What we need is a pay per useage system for residentail customers in addition to a basic access fee. Much like we pay for electricity.

Say a $10 access fee in addition to a $0.35 / GB charge.

Or use burstable billing (e.g. 95th percentile). Everyone gets an e.g. 10Mbit connection, but pays $20 access fee + $50/Mbit at 95th percentile.

If you're a user who would typically get a 'lite' (e.g. 512Kbps) package, your bill would be close to $20. If you want to pin your connection 24/7 for the entire month, then you pay $520.

The downside to burstable billing is that it's confusing for some people to understand.

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SKYMTL Mar 19, 2009 11:20 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Alter3d Reality @ Mar 19 2009, 11:09 AM)

The downside to burstable billing is that it's confusing for some people to understand.

True but the current system just isn't working for anyone. I download MAYBE 20GB per month but I want speed so I need to step up to a high speed 100GB package. That just doesn't make sense.

So, give everyone per use billing and high speeds. Everyone wins and the people who download tons of stuff will end up paying what they should.

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Apollo4g Mar 19, 2009 11:21 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Glad i went with Colbanet, unlimited FTW!
Hope it stays that way.

A shame they are only in Quebec and Ontario.

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James_8970 Mar 19, 2009 11:22 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (Apollo4g @ Mar 19 2009, 11:21 AM)

Glad i went with Colbanet, unlimited FTW!
Hope it stays that way.

My ISP is unlimited as well, but I wouldn't expect that to last for long. It's just not a sustainable service.
James

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Greg_K Mar 19, 2009 11:30 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Quote: (James_8970 @ Mar 19 2009, 11:02 AM)

If our taxes pay for this, I'll be pissed. That being said, there are more costs associated with infrastructure costs then just trenching, though the majority of the costs do lay with laying the fiber down in the ground.


The majority of the deployment funding comes from a partnership between a federal, provincial and municipal governments (at least that was the case when laying the copper phone lines - I would guess that this is the case with Fiber to 'x' networks). I can't find the exact amount allocated to broadband internet access (I would probably have to search through a large number of budgets to even get an estimate on what is allocated). Even if its 5% of the infrastructure amounts allocated from year to year, its still significant.

From, http://www.fin.gc.ca/n08/09-011-eng.asp
Immediate Action to Build Infrastructure

Expanding and accelerating the recent historic federal investment in infrastructure with almost $12 billion in new infrastructure stimulus funding for roads, bridges, broadband internet access, electronic health records, laboratories and border crossings across the country. This will support economic growth and employment this year and next while also bolstering Canada’s long-run productive capacity.

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