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 LATEST TOPICS |  FORUMS » MONITORS » WARNING! STILL ONLY 24 FPS IN 1080P!...

BenQ W1070 Home Theatre DLP Projector 3D Ready 1080P 10000:1 2000 ANSI Lumens 2XHDMI 1.4A

Texas Instruments, Native 1080P DarkChip3 DLP technology
BenQ W1070 Home Theatre DLP Projector 3D Ready 1080P 10000:1 2000 ANSI Lumens 2XHDMI 1.4A
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77677
   Shipping Weight:   8.5 lbs
   Part #: W1070
Subject: Warning! Still only 24 FPS in 1080p!
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jsimon Nov 23, 2012 01:43 AM Reply | Bookmark
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According to Linus' video, this is still only 24 FPS in 1080p.

You can do 60 FPS in 720p, but for PC gaming it's probably not too great.

Hopefully we'll start seeing 3D projectors and TVs that can do 60 FPS in 1080p by the time "The Hobbit" comes out since it's filmed at 48 FPS!

Topic URL: http://forums.ncix.com/forums/topic.php?id=2571701

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CoolRonZ Feb 01, 2013 09:07 PM Reply | Bookmark
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huh ? and so are all 3D BLU-RAYs.... its actually 24FPS per eye.... hence 48FPS....

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TetraSky Feb 01, 2013 10:11 PM Reply | Bookmark
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The point, you missed it.

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Airspace Mar 19, 2013 07:50 PM Reply | Bookmark
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The OP seriously does not understand the relation between Hertz and Frames Per Second. The Hz has NOTHING to do with how many FPS the source is rendered at. It is simply the flicker rate of the screen. Yes with Bu-Ray's there is a 24Hz flicker rate, and coincidentally the film industry has chosen 24P (Pages Per Second) which for the most part is the same FPS as their standard, however it is easy to mix the 2 up as the same thing, it is not. This is a very common mis-conception TV manufacturers are exploiting to promote "so called" higher Hz screens = smoother image, which would be true if the source actually had that but the fact is nothing does.

The pixel clear out is far more important. You can have a 120Hz screen with a 8ms clear out and it is unplayable in games, or you can have a 60Hz screen at 2ms that is perfect with no ghosting or choppy. Also if what you say is true, then how can a game run at 100FPS on a 60Hz screen? Better sue every video card maker and game benchmark ever made! CoolRonZ was not wrong. You should also note that having anything above 60Hz from almost any source is simulated and produces an unnatural picture too. Also, very very few humans see above 40FPS, and higher than 24FPS is barely noticeable so as long as it is a constant framerate with no fluctuation like you get with rendering on a computer. When we are playing games and it seems to lag when the frames dip down, it is not stuttery because the FPS dropped from 60 to 30 (for example), but it is stuttery because your eyes noticed the CHANGE in framerate and takes a moment to adjust. Anything slower than 24FPS is clearly noticeable though, I will just clarify that. Myself I do notice a difference from 24 to 30.

But back to the point, I own this projector, and it does do 1080/60P 1920 x 1080 at 60Hz and 1080/24P at 24Hz, as most current LED/Plasma/Projectors are designed to match the standardized source rates (except for cheap knock offs that don't of course lol). Sure you can have one that does Blu-Ray 1080p at 120Hz, but that would not be a very good viewing experience because the playback rate would be altered or interlaced then re-coded back to progressive...which if you notice, true 3D 1080p sources use frame packing at 24Hz (3D gaming on COMPUTERS ONLY is an exception because of the methods used for rendering the data into playable graphics, as it is not a fixed source like a Blu-Ray is, please keep that in mind). Back to Blu-Ray...like the Hobbit, which is 1080/48P 48Hz (non standard) FRAME PACKED, which is where the 3D device then splits the left and right into 2 overlapping 1080/24P at 24Hz images, to make it a standard playback rate on your Blu-Ray player, which sadly often converts it to 1080/60i at 60Hz, which your TV then converts it back to a Progressive image after handling the frame packing, where THAT is where the 3D is choppy and just horrid, like most Passive or low end Active 3D.

Understanding frame packing will help you understand 3D playback and how the device renders to the screen.

Kinda confusing but once you get it, it helps a person understand why when I watch in 3D on this device it is choppy, and on this one it looks better, it just depends on how it mashes it through from the disc to the player, back to the tv, then converted to left and right, then to your eyes. Some just do it better than others without lag. This projector does a wonderful job. Most people that see a good Blu-Ray on this comment on how it is better 3D than on most LED's and Plasma's and better than the theater, not because of the size, but because it has a very very good 3D Frame Packing decoder. Side by side however, I will not, is not so great on it. It can only do it in 1080/60i, no exceptions. So if you plan on doing SBS 3D, consider picking up a device like the Oppa that can properly re-code a SBS to 1080/60p or 24p so you dont have to suffer through interlacing.

The 2nd most important is just having good quality glasses. I have been working on another community with 3rd party glasses, and trust me, its ALL about the glasses on frame packed sources.

If I have any p/i/fps/Hz typos just correct me, when bouncing back and fourth trying to explain it I may have had a dyslexic moment but for the most part it should make sense. LOL

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2013 07:54 PM

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2013 07:56 PM

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AnGelzzz Mar 19, 2013 08:18 PM Reply | Bookmark
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It's not currently possible to play PC games at 1080p in 3D at any more than 24 FPS. FPS and HZ may not be the same thing, but for all intents and purposes are EQUAL. If you have a 3DTV or projector, you're only gonna be playing 3D games at 60FPS at 720p resolution, just the way it is. HDMI 1.4a does not support anything higher than 24FPS per eye for 3D at 1080p. Also, the Hobbit is not being released on Blu-ray in 48FPS as neither Blu-ray nor HDMI support this currently.

This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2013 08:20 PM

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Jarno Mar 20, 2013 12:52 PM Reply | Bookmark
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That's only for 3dtv's! 1080p monitors 120fps game on!  And yes sadly i looked into it. Bluray doesnt support the frame rate, The cable just carries a signal it's not the issue.
As for the hobbit it will be released in the 48 fps version when 4k tv's are released and this thing called a redray player takes over bluray.

They are the guys who made the camera's with an epic 5k resolution.  

underlying tone, forget 1080p you missed the boat. Incoming redray

This message was modified by the poster at 03 20, 2013 12:56 PM

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Greg * NCIX.com Mar 20, 2013 01:33 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Calling it the "flicker rate" is a very poor description. "Frames" IS the correct term for a Blu-Ray movie's frame rate. The projector itself can duplicates the frames to produce a much higher end result frame rate (it displays each frame 6 times).

Quote: (Airspace @ Mar 19 2013, 07:50 PM)

Also if what you say is true, then how can a game run at 100FPS on a 60Hz screen?

It can because it can. A video card will prepare as many frames per second as possible. If VSync is turned on, it will start drawing the latest frame on the next pass. If VSync is turned off, it will start displaying the next frame immediately in the middle of the draw cycle (which leads to on-screen tearing)

Quote: (Airspace @ Mar 19 2013, 07:50 PM)

You should also note that having anything above 60Hz from almost any source is simulated and produces an unnatural picture too. Also, very very few humans see above 40FPS, and higher than 24FPS is barely noticeable so as long as it is a constant framerate with no fluctuation like you get with rendering on a computer.

Yes and no. TV's that report numbers above 60Hz will interpolate and create  new frames. It's not "unnatural", it's that we're used to TV and movies looking blurry. DLP projectors do not do this and simply spit out the same frame multiple times to minimize rainbow effects.

Humans can definitely see above 40fps. Movies are less noticeable because films and TV make use of motion blur. 3D gaming uses little to no motion blur, so 60fps+ frame rates are necessary for fluid motion to look accurate. This is why gaming at 1080p24 isn't advised and 720p60 is a recommended.

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Greg * NCIX.com Mar 20, 2013 01:44 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Yeah, I've been watching for a HDMI v1.4b projector that will take 3D 1080p60, but nothing exists yet.

Quote: (Jarno @ Mar 20 2013, 12:52 PM)

As for the hobbit it will be released in the 48 fps version when 4k tv's are released and this thing called a redray player takes over bluray.

Hmm, interesting device. Not reliant on physical media, and uses high compression rates to make for a low bitrate stream. I doubt they'll have any commercial success within the next 5 years though.

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DJZ Mar 20, 2013 01:49 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Redray sounds ridiculous :(

Also:
"Today, for less than $5K, 4K footage is as easy to work with as HD."

=(

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Airspace Mar 21, 2013 07:48 AM Reply | Bookmark
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Ya that is why I said computers are an exception, I meant that in a sarcastic way, as in they can do it, whereas the OP's line of reasoning would make 100FPS impossible. Sorry bad choice in words.

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Greg * NCIX.com Mar 21, 2013 10:22 AM Reply | Bookmark
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The OP's reasoning is correct, but basically he's warning people of the limitations that ALL 1080p projectors currently face. It's not recommended to play any games (PC or console) at 1080p on any 3D TV (Projector, LCD, or Plasma).

Stick with 720p or use an actual computer monitor meant to run PC games at 1080p 3D.

3D television and movies on the other hand will play very nicely at 24fps because that's what they are filmed at in the first place. So a 1080p projector like this will do extremely well with a 3D Blu-Ray source.

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CoolRonZ May 17, 2013 05:05 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I think a lot of people get confused, 3DPlay isn't the same as NVision.... It follows the HDMI1.4a standard.... NVision and HD3D both have twice the bandwidth of HDMI1.4a... No matter, a 1080P 3D projector that will actually work with any PC or console etc. for under $1000, that's awesome!!!!! And as far as games go, 30 frames per eye is fine :D

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Borna_V Oct 26, 2013 03:12 PM Reply | Bookmark
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I have this projector and can run 1080P 60Hz with HDMI and Windows/OSX.

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Kahless78 Oct 26, 2013 04:27 PM Reply | Bookmark
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Most movies that you watch are 24fps.
What's the problem again? OP missed the memo??

This message was modified by the poster at 10 26, 2013 04:28 PM

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Messages about BenQ W1070 Home Theatre DLP Projector 3D Ready 1080P 10000:1 2000 ANSI Lumens 2XHDMI 1.4A

Anyone get this for $699??? (HaRDcoRE- Nov 29, 13, 0 Replies) Read this message
Warning! Still only 24 FPS in 1080p! (jsimon- Oct 26, 13, 13 Replies) Read this message
Only a minijack for audio out?? (CivMan- May 18, 13, 5 Replies) Read this message
Liars (Rob_L- Mar 27, 13, 5 Replies) Read this message
Here's the REAL specs! 1080P 60hz=yes (Francois_P- Feb 21, 13, 1 Replies) Read this message
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