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| Subject: Warning! Still only 24 FPS in 1080p! |
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jsimon
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Nov 23, 2012 01:43 AM |
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CoolRonZ
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Feb 01, 2013 09:07 PM |
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TetraSky
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Feb 01, 2013 10:11 PM |
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Airspace
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Mar 19, 2013 07:50 PM |
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The OP seriously does not understand the relation between Hertz and Frames Per Second. The Hz has NOTHING to do with how many FPS the source is rendered at. It is simply the flicker rate of the screen. Yes with Bu-Ray's there is a 24Hz flicker rate, and coincidentally the film industry has chosen 24P (Pages Per Second) which for the most part is the same FPS as their standard, however it is easy to mix the 2 up as the same thing, it is not. This is a very common mis-conception TV manufacturers are exploiting to promote "so called" higher Hz screens = smoother image, which would be true if the source actually had that but the fact is nothing does.
The pixel clear out is far more important. You can have a 120Hz screen with a 8ms clear out and it is unplayable in games, or you can have a 60Hz screen at 2ms that is perfect with no ghosting or choppy. Also if what you say is true, then how can a game run at 100FPS on a 60Hz screen? Better sue every video card maker and game benchmark ever made! CoolRonZ was not wrong. You should also note that having anything above 60Hz from almost any source is simulated and produces an unnatural picture too. Also, very very few humans see above 40FPS, and higher than 24FPS is barely noticeable so as long as it is a constant framerate with no fluctuation like you get with rendering on a computer. When we are playing games and it seems to lag when the frames dip down, it is not stuttery because the FPS dropped from 60 to 30 (for example), but it is stuttery because your eyes noticed the CHANGE in framerate and takes a moment to adjust. Anything slower than 24FPS is clearly noticeable though, I will just clarify that. Myself I do notice a difference from 24 to 30.
But back to the point, I own this projector, and it does do 1080/60P 1920 x 1080 at 60Hz and 1080/24P at 24Hz, as most current LED/Plasma/Projectors are designed to match the standardized source rates (except for cheap knock offs that don't of course lol). Sure you can have one that does Blu-Ray 1080p at 120Hz, but that would not be a very good viewing experience because the playback rate would be altered or interlaced then re-coded back to progressive...which if you notice, true 3D 1080p sources use frame packing at 24Hz (3D gaming on COMPUTERS ONLY is an exception because of the methods used for rendering the data into playable graphics, as it is not a fixed source like a Blu-Ray is, please keep that in mind). Back to Blu-Ray...like the Hobbit, which is 1080/48P 48Hz (non standard) FRAME PACKED, which is where the 3D device then splits the left and right into 2 overlapping 1080/24P at 24Hz images, to make it a standard playback rate on your Blu-Ray player, which sadly often converts it to 1080/60i at 60Hz, which your TV then converts it back to a Progressive image after handling the frame packing, where THAT is where the 3D is choppy and just horrid, like most Passive or low end Active 3D.
Understanding frame packing will help you understand 3D playback and how the device renders to the screen.
Kinda confusing but once you get it, it helps a person understand why when I watch in 3D on this device it is choppy, and on this one it looks better, it just depends on how it mashes it through from the disc to the player, back to the tv, then converted to left and right, then to your eyes. Some just do it better than others without lag. This projector does a wonderful job. Most people that see a good Blu-Ray on this comment on how it is better 3D than on most LED's and Plasma's and better than the theater, not because of the size, but because it has a very very good 3D Frame Packing decoder. Side by side however, I will not, is not so great on it. It can only do it in 1080/60i, no exceptions. So if you plan on doing SBS 3D, consider picking up a device like the Oppa that can properly re-code a SBS to 1080/60p or 24p so you dont have to suffer through interlacing.
The 2nd most important is just having good quality glasses. I have been working on another community with 3rd party glasses, and trust me, its ALL about the glasses on frame packed sources.
If I have any p/i/fps/Hz typos just correct me, when bouncing back and fourth trying to explain it I may have had a dyslexic moment but for the most part it should make sense. LOL
This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2013 07:54 PM
This message was modified by the poster at 03 19, 2013 07:56 PM
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AnGelzzz
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Mar 19, 2013 08:18 PM |
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Jarno
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Mar 20, 2013 12:52 PM |
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Greg * NCIX.com
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Mar 20, 2013 01:33 PM |
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Quote: (Airspace @ Mar 19 2013, 07:50 PM)
It is simply the flicker rate of the screen. Yes with Bu-Ray's there is a 24Hz flicker rate, and coincidentally the film industry has chosen 24P (Pages Per Second) which for the most part is the same FPS as their standard, however it is easy to mix the 2 up as the same thing, it is not.
Calling it the "flicker rate" is a very poor description. "Frames" IS the correct term for a Blu-Ray movie's frame rate. The projector itself can duplicates the frames to produce a much higher end result frame rate (it displays each frame 6 times).
Quote: (Airspace @ Mar 19 2013, 07:50 PM)
Also if what you say is true, then how can a game run at 100FPS on a 60Hz screen?
It can because it can. A video card will prepare as many frames per second as possible. If VSync is turned on, it will start drawing the latest frame on the next pass. If VSync is turned off, it will start displaying the next frame immediately in the middle of the draw cycle (which leads to on-screen tearing)
Quote: (Airspace @ Mar 19 2013, 07:50 PM)
You should also note that having anything above 60Hz from almost any source is simulated and produces an unnatural picture too. Also, very very few humans see above 40FPS, and higher than 24FPS is barely noticeable so as long as it is a constant framerate with no fluctuation like you get with rendering on a computer.
Yes and no. TV's that report numbers above 60Hz will interpolate and create new frames. It's not "unnatural", it's that we're used to TV and movies looking blurry. DLP projectors do not do this and simply spit out the same frame multiple times to minimize rainbow effects.
Humans can definitely see above 40fps. Movies are less noticeable because films and TV make use of motion blur. 3D gaming uses little to no motion blur, so 60fps+ frame rates are necessary for fluid motion to look accurate. This is why gaming at 1080p24 isn't advised and 720p60 is a recommended.
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Greg * NCIX.com
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Mar 20, 2013 01:44 PM |
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DJZ
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Mar 20, 2013 01:49 PM |
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Airspace
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Mar 21, 2013 07:48 AM |
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Greg * NCIX.com
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Mar 21, 2013 10:22 AM |
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CoolRonZ
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May 17, 2013 05:05 PM |
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And yes sadly i looked into it. Bluray doesnt support the frame rate, The cable just carries a signal it's not the issue. 
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